A Hunter's Story

Ok, Maybe it’s me, but all the jerk DK Tanks have become jerk healers. And idiot ones. I mean, seems the remaining DK Tanks are a lot nicer than they used to be. And the healers all seem to be on xyz alt, well geared, and have no clue how to heal. Like the Tree that complained they didn’t have enough time to get any heals off on the tank. Seems strange when you have an ICC geared healer and a Defense Capped tank w/ 32k health. But when you realize the healer was using Healing Touch only, and never even tried any instant casts like Rejuv… Yeah, no wonder the tank was dieing before the healer could heal them!

Another one that was annoying, was the one that got into the group and 5 seconds later said “Tank’s not geared enough. Bye”. So being defense capped and geared well enough for Ulduar isn’t good enough for a heroic anymore, eh? Oh well, we moved on at a pretty quick clip anyway with the new healer, so I’m glad the stupid healer wasted their dungeon timer CD. I’d be willing to bet we would have gone slower with them healing anyway!

But in short, these things keep happening. I guess it’s just the natural rotation of what we need most and what people gravitate to without learning the necessary skills. I mean, I play a healer, tank & 2 dps. But I spent the time learning how to play them so I do it decently or better. Or more importantly, I’m nice. I say hello. I say thank you. And if someone says “mana”, I wait for them, not run off like mad. And if I’m a healer and feel like the group could go faster because I’m barely dipping below 98% mana… I help DPS. I don’t sit there and yell “go faster, go faster, go faster” every fight. Even when the pally tank and all dps are out of mana… Yeah. Quite simply – “Xanther says Play Nice!” And I can’t wait for Cata so our friends all come back & play w/ us, lol.

Ok, so I’ve been in ICC quite a few times, but interestingly enough, I hadn’t downed Rotface (on 10 man) until last night. Done him on 25, done him on my healer, but never on my main on 10 man. Well, tried, but never succeeded. So I find it interesting, ironic, and funny that what do we do differently to make it work? Have the Hunter tank!

Now, these tips will probably help other tanks too, but I figure I just have to share as a reminder that yes, Hunters can DPS. Yes, Hunters can Heal (well, ok, never done a raid as a healer, but we can at least tank-heal things where our pet is tanking! lol). And yes, Hunters can Tank. HUNTERS FTW! Haha.

Ok, now the actual details, before someone thinks I mean that a hunter can run up and Mele Tank the Lich King. So I was actually in a good PuG. Run with these guys before, and this time happened to be on 10-man. Actually, we started one night, wiped on Rot a couple times, called it a night, and scheduled to go back in and try again later. So we did. Part of the problem was that neither of our tanks had ever succeeded in off-tanking Rot. So those of us who had seen it done were offering pointers, and no one really minded wiping because they were learning. They were listening and learning (such a different dynamic than the other day!). So we tried a number of times. Then we decided to change it up and I’d try tanking. Well, kite-tanking. And on our first try, we got down to the dreaded 0% wipe. Yes, Rot had less than 60k health left when the last person died. ZOMG! So then next try we had a healer DC, then another random prob, and then we successfully downed him. Yay us! Hunter tank FTW!

Soooooo onto the how. It’s actually pretty simple, and very reminiscent of Nax. Basically, it’s a combination of Distracting Shot, Disengage, Frost Trap, and strafing. So basically, the tank in plate armor keeps Rot’s attention in a simple Tank & Spank. The tank in mail armor starts off as DPS. As the fight goes on, Rot will create a small ooze. Whoever gets it runs out near (NOT ON TOP OF) the Hunter. When the next person gets a small ooze on them, they run out and merge it with the other one. They create a Large Ooze. At this point, the Hunter uses DS to get the Large Ooze on him/her. They then just kite it around the outer edge of the room. AotW will help mitigate the dmg of the green circles of death on the floor, but avoid them when possible to help the healer. Remember though – healers can heal you through the green circle of death. They can’t heal you if the Large Ooze hits you. Quite simply, the Large Ooze will kill you if it catches up. This is also why you need to have it merge near, not on top of, you. In one of our pulls, it merged almost directly on top of me, so when he went after me he killed me dead real quick. Where as sometimes when kiting, I had to run through the green goo. My health got low and I had to pop a health pot, but I lived. So word of advice – avoid the green goo of death on the floor, but avoid the large ooze more.

That’s really all there is to it. When I had the opportunity, I threw some extra DPS on Rot, but mostly just kited the ooze. Eventually it breaks apart, and periodically a new one will spawn. So don’t stand near Rot when it breaks up, and if a new one appears, grab it. If the ooze is getting too close, use Disengage to get away. Drop Frost traps to slow it down (well, I don’t know if it actually does, but it makes you feel better at least, lol). And that’s basically it.

So for that first wipe we had when I was tanking, it was all just bad coincidence. Somehow, our ooze just broke up, but then 2 new ones spawned at the same time that green goo came out. So I was standing in an area that was clear, saw an ooze pop up and grabbed its agro. Of course, that was the same time the goo appeared underneath me, and the other ooze appeared on the opposite side of the one I had. So it cut through the group as I tried to side-step in order to get a clear shot at the other one, and the heals just had no chance to keep up on either the group or I. So once I went down the 2 oozies went amuck and decimated the group. Still not really sure how we had the 2 pop up so close together, but seriously – less than 60k health! And no, 2 large oozies is not the end of the world. On our successful attempt, at one point the second ooze came up. Everyone’s initial reaction over vent was “Oh no, we’re gonna wipe” basically. Then those comments were followed by “Oh, nevermind, he’s got both of them!” because I quickly and calmly picked up the second one and kited it as well. The first one soon after broke up and I was back to kiting just one. No biggie, lol.

So anyway, I hope that helps people tanking on Rot. It’s not that it’s really hard to do, you just have to nail 2 things. 1 – land the taunt. 2 – don’t get hit. And that goes for whomever is tanking the oozies, whether Hunter or other. And no, you cannot taunt the little oozies. Don’t even waste the GCD on them. Just wait until it combines with another and forms a large ooze. Then taunt the large one. And all the while? Let your pet stack some nice deeps on Rot! Might as well give him as much damage as he’s giving out, right? Hunter tank ftw – we tank and dps at the same time! Lol.

No, not going to talk about RealID on the forums. Everyone else is doing that today (and rightfully so, but I’ll save that for later!).

“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” -Albert Einstein

So, this is on people not using the apparently uncommon common sense, or that other thing called Logic. This is actually something that annoys me everywhere, but last night kinda ticked me off.

I got into a pug for RS. It was mostly a guild run, and they only really had Halion left. So I come in, having never done the boss before, being a pug, and figure I’ll follow directions and do as directed. Was a decent enough group for the most part, and people were learning, so I certainly didn’t mind wiping a few times. But what annoyed me a little bit was that we were doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results, but getting the same wipe each time. So I looked at it from a new angle and realized one of our problems.

Now bear with my pathetic illustrations, hopefully they’ll make sense. Blue = Halion. Green is the circle you must stay within – if he gets pulled outside the circle, he resets. Green is basically safe area. Red is his cleave, his breath, or his tail lash since he’s a dragon. Basically dead zones that you don’t want to go into at all (except the MT, of course). Again, this leaves green as safe zones.

So our tank pulls him, and puts his head towards the edge of the circle and his tail in the center. Which sets up the fight as such:

Now add in his next mechanic, where he sets someone on fire. The longer they have it on them, the more charges you get. When it’s finally dispelled, it creates an additional flaming circle of death, proportionate to the number of stacks you had on you… (plus it gives a knockback to anyone too close to you, which typically tosses them towards a death zone, but that’s minor compared to the other things going on). So experienced group – small circles of death. Inexperienced group like this one? larger circles. Also, experienced group – the circles are out on the edges of the safe zone. Inexperienced they end up closer to the center of where everyone is standing. Note – I’m not knocking the group for this – it’s pretty standard with any new group in a new dungeon with very little experience. It’s called a learning curve, lol. Anyway, so as these new circles of death start showing up, the raid begins to look like this:



Anyone seeing the problem yet? Where to stand?! You can’t go in the safe area behind his tail (far enough to not get swiped) because that’s too far of a range to hit him, or you’ll be too close and get swiped. You can’t stand up by his head because of the cleaves. And now, you can’t stand on the sides because of the fire circles. And it’s particularly hard on Hunters because we need to stay a minimum range from him, otherwise we aren’t effective at all since we can’t shoot. No wonder we kept wiping! Here, let me add the Hunter dead zone just for the visual. Especially since 2 out of the 10 in the group were Hunters:



So anyway, up to this point, everything is understandable. You have to go through these fights in order to figure out what works, what doesn’t, how to make it easier, and so on. So after a couple of wipes, I suggest that instead of the tank running in with the group and then pulling, turning 90 degrees, and dragging him back to the edge of the circle, I suggest 2 things:

1. Tank runs in from a spot on the circle 90 degrees from the rest of the group. No turning necessary, everyone’s faster to get in on DPS and heals, and the whole thing engages easier.
2. Tank him in the center. Frees up a lot more room to maneuver, a lot more safe zone (that you can DPS from). In fact, here’s the same drawing as above, but with my suggestion:

Notice how much more safe green zone there is? I didn’t even move the fire circles, but with more green room there’s an ability to move those farther out, which further gives safe fighting green zone! Even if this wasn’t logic, but a simple suggestion that had some possibility for success, it would still be worth trying at least once, right?

No.

Our MT has already done this successfully on 25 man once. Therefore he’s an expert. His way or the highway. Nevermind that his way has just failed 4 or 5 times in a row, and we’re still only barely hitting Phase III. Nope, he’s an expert and suggestions with logic, or even baseless suggestions aren’t allowed because he’s done it on 25.

So that’s where I ended up getting so frustrated with the group. Which was ok because it broke up for the night at that point anyway. But what annoyed me so much was that they didn’t even consider the suggestion. I would have been fine with “When we tried that on 25 man it was actually harder because of A, B and C.” or “We’ll try that next, I want to give this method another shot” or any number of responses. But “No, our tank has done it on 25 – he knows what he’s doing” is the same thing as saying “Because I said so”. Somehow I’m guessing that the raider saying the tank’s done it on 25 is a parent, and he uses “Because I said so” all the time.

I hate that response. I mean, it’s fine if it’s coming from someone I trust, because I know that they have a valid reason, and not only that, but I expect that they’re waiting for us to do it their way and for me to see and understand why their way was effective. But in this situation where I don’t know the guy? Where obviously this guy doesn’t know what he’s doing or we wouldn’t have just wiped so many times? Hell, I would’ve even been ok with a response of “I’m sorry, for our raids we ONLY do what XYZ says. We don’t listen to suggestions or input on wipes, we just do what XYZ says, even if it means we never down the boss because we wipe due to the same reason over and over.” Then I would’ve at least known not to bother making any suggestions.

It was the definition of insanity – doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results… But really, the thing that annoyed me most was “He’s done it (once) on 25 – he knows what he’s doing”. I’m sorry, but just because the stars aligned and you luckily managed to down a boss does not mean you are an expert. Consider Heroic Dungeons – lots of people can do them pretty quick and easy on a guild run. But throw them in a PuG with lower gear quality and less skill? They won’t be as successful. And besides, if we’ve just proven 4 or 5 times in a row that you don’t know what you’re doing, how are you still the expert? Makes we want to strangle people and knock some sense into them!

So anyway, no I’m not annoyed that I got saved to a raid and didn’t down any bosses. I knew that was a possibility (probability) when I hit “Yes” upon entering the dungeon. What annoys me is when people are experts because they’ve done something once on 25 man, and when they won’t listen to any suggestions. Seriously, just listen to them. If they make sense, use them. If they don’t, don’t. But at a minimum, listen to the suggestion and consider it. Don’t assume the only one who understands raid mechanics is the guy whose done this particular raid once on 25 man knows everything and everyone else knows nothing. Maybe they have good ideas too.

Yay, finally picked up the last two pieces for my T-10 last night. The hands & chest. So cool! Actually, it was a little uncool. I’ve been saving up the badges to get the 2 pieces at the same time, because one piece would have broken my 2-piece set bonus for the T-9 which would’ve actually lowered my DPS. So I saved up, though I was going to get it WED, but my ICC pug stopped before Fester. Yeah, tank had to go, so raid broke up. /sad. But I still thought I was fine anyway and had enough. Until I remembered the chest was 95 badges, not 90… So I was 2 short. Ugh. But after waiting a long time anyway, and considering it was rather late at night… It was fine. I just got the gems & enchants all ready so that yesterday after logging in & downing Ahune, I could buy & equip right away. Had some fun w/ the gear too! Always fun to see a noticeable rise in your DPS!

Except there was that messed up PuG for VoA-10 first. I got in a group, and after a little bit we’re sitting there w/ 8 people. Just need 2 people. Well, 2 healers since we had none. Sitting, waiting…. waiting…. Finally, I figure what the heck, and volunteer to switch to my healer. So I do. Big mistake. Apparently they really could have used at least 1 smart DPS more than they needed a healer… You see, we couldn’t take down Toravon. Why? Because DPS was mostly ranged, and was all stacking together on top of the other healer and I. And then dragging the orbs into everyone. And taking forever to kill them. Now me, I see this as a ‘DPS not knowing the mechanics’ problem. Most of the raid saw it as a ‘Healers not healing’ problem. Well let’s put it this way: every time an orb came out, the entire raid dropped to 10% health. I was looking at the stats from the raid and comparing it to successful runs. Successful wind up taking somewhere around 350k dmg from orbs. In this wipe run, we took 500k. From the orbs alone. Seriously, who can heal through that? Take 10 people, give them an average of 25k health (some less, some more, obviously. Tanks at 40k, clothies at 19k) and that gives you a total health pool of 250k health. Insert orbs, all drop down to 10%, so essentially the group takes a collective 225k health dive. Now, if you paused all damage and let the healers catch up, that would take (at roughly 8k effective HPS combined) 28 seconds to get everyone back to full. Almost half a minute. And that’s if they don’t take any extra damage, which of course they are!

So normally I’m fine with wipes. I mean, yes, I don’t want to wipe, but if a group wipes, it usually means people learn from it and improve for the next time. And this would have been a great chance to teach everyone there how to kite the orbs away from the group, or kill them before they get to the group. But instead they just said “why aren’t we getting healed” and other similar comments, and just ditched the group. That’s why it was a pain. So I logged back on Gal, popped into LFR again, and wound up in a group with about 1/2 the same folks that were in the previous group. But now as a DPS I was able to pull the orbs away from the group, taking minimal damage myself. And we downed him pretty darn quick. In fact, had roughly the same total DPS, roughly the same total HPS, but far less Orb damage. Kinda funny that when DPS do their job on fights like this one… they’re so much easier!

Haha, saw a video over on WoW.com and had to laugh. I thought those were some pretty accurate descriptions of PuG’ers. Also made me think about myself too. I realized that I have a little bit of some of them in me, but I do my best to hold them in! Lol. By that, I mean that as a tank, I really really want to run ahead and chain pull the thing. But I don’t. I want to, but I know it’s not good for the group, nor is it fun for everyone. So I do the nice things like making sure the healer has mana, wait till everyone’s R before we start the instance, and toss in a “r?” whenever I think necessary, but certainly not every pull. On my Hunter I really want to be the “Go Go Go!” but I don’t because that’s just plain annoying and accomplishes nothing. I want to say “Go or I’ll pull them onto you anyway” but I don’t. I seriously think about it sometimes though! LOL.

I guess what I’m saying is that it’s ok to think some of those things in your head. Just make sure there’s a filter between your brain and hands or ventrilo. But then, there’s a lot of things that cross my mind that need that filter too, not just in WoW…

Sometimes it makes no sense. It’s just wtf? Like earlier this week when we were in DK. Starts off as a pretty awesome run. One of the fastest ones we’ve done (Lady X healing, told the tank to just chain pull, so he did). We DPS were all doing some nice high numbers, so the groups went down real quick. In fact, we flew through the first 3 bosses like we were the hot knife and they were the butter. Except on the 3rd boss – King Dred… Burning through him nicely, and then one dps leaves. Then King Dred goes down. Then the tank leaves.

I don’t get it. It was a smooth, fast run, so why did they ditch then? For that one dps, just 3 more seconds and the boss would be down. For the tank, why leave when you have a group that’s going the pace you want it to, and no one is making any stupid mistakes? I just don’t get it.

So then there’s the other wtf that we’ve been getting recently too – DPS who think that by queuing as a tank, it means their gear and skills will magically be sufficient to tank. Like the run we’re doing in VH and we notice the tank is dropping health way more than he should be. So we check the armory – he wasn’t even close to defense capped. Pointed it out to him, since DPS were having trouble not getting agro, and the healer was getting far more taxed healing him than they should have. His response? “Damn, I hoped no one would notice.”

Sad thing is, he’s probably done it many times, and no one has noticed. They just pulled the extra weight all because this guy couldn’t do a couple regulars real quick and pick up one or two more pieces of gear before jumping into heroics. But that still isn’t as bad as the tank we had last night, zomg! We thought his 25k health when buffed was a little low, so we checked the armory (especially since the healer was getting twitchy seeing his health dropping so fast and so often…). Well, we were checking the armory at the same time RankWatch went off. He replied to my RankWatch wsp, “I didn’t train the tanking spells”. Looking at his gear? He didn’t even have a prot spec, and only had about 2 prot pieces – rest were all fury/arms.

Why do these people think that they can just go in and tank a heroic with 400 defense (535 is capped) because they’re wearing DPS gear and haven’t even trained all the tanking spells? Or even tanking talents?!?! Could we have done it? Possibly. If it were a guild run and we were doing it for fun. Bring a hunter and an uber healer, everyone does what they’re supposed to, and we see how fast we can go with all DPS & 1 healer & no tank. But with a random pug? What, he just expects no one to notice that the dungeon is FAR harder than it should be? Seriously, just run in your main spec on a few heroics and ask to roll for offspec when tanking items drop. Most people aren’t there for the gear, so you’ll probably get it. And if you don’t, you’ll build up badges real quick and can get badge gear, which is even better. But don’t be the cause of multiple wipes from negligence or idiocy. Don’t force random healers to stress out because they can barely keep you alive when they normally can DPS and heal at the same time. And don’t queue if you don’t have a spec, gear, or trained skills to play that role! There’s a reason Hunters can’t queue as healers – bandages and mend pet aren’t enough. So maybe Bliz needs to fix it so that DPS that are obviously DPS can’t Tank too. Heaven forbid you should actually have the spec for the role you want to play! Wouldn’t that be a simple fix for bliz. If you don’t have a healer spec, you can’t heal a random pug. If you don’t have a tank spec, you can’t tank a random pug. If you want to cross those lines? That’s fine – just find your own group. Don’t pull randoms into it.

And I should note, just to be clear – I’m always happy to help someone gear up. So long as they’re trying. Especially a tank or healer since there are fewer of them. I just expect them to put at least a minimum effort into training a talent tree, and training the skills as a baseline. Once they have those, I can help them get gear and skill at the task. But to consciously make it harder for everyone else, without even a ‘by your leave’ or an ‘fyi’? Yeah – those people need help, and I’m not talking about getting help gearing up…